May 5, 1999: We Are Going to Prepare an Upsurge of the Struggle for Genuine Socialism

Interview with the Chairman of the MLPD, Stefan Engel

stefan-engel.jpgRed Flag: The MLPD has been preparing for its 6th Party Congress for several months. What goals are being pursued?

Stefan Engel: It is all about preparing an upsurge of the struggle for genuine socialism. In the transition to a new millenium we are witnessing an intensification of the general crisis of capitalism. The reorganization of international production has triggered off an international structural crisis which is depriving millions of people of their jobs and ruining entire national economies in the developing countries. This is paving the way for a world-wide overproduction crisis.
In this context, a huge concentration movement is presently taking place; it has global character and has already reached a total volume of 1.5 trillion US dollars in the first half of 1999. Behind these international megamergers is an international battle of annihilation of the monopolies. It is linked to the failure of the economic control mechanisms of the state and has drastic effects on the social situation of the masses of people. We are experiencing an upswing of strikes and mass demonstrations, of liberation struggles and uprisings throughout the world. This makes clear that the factors for a new historical period of transformation from capitalism to socialism are maturing.
The problem to be solved is the subjective factor in class struggle which is not in correspondence with the objective development. The Marxists-Leninists therefore have to entirely focus on developing the class consciousness of the masses and on enhancing the capability of the revolutionary parties to lead the masses in the struggle for the socialist way out.
Since its 5th Party Congress, the MLPD has given priority to changing the party's work. We have placed the party work on the basis of the proletarian mode of thinking. This means a higher quality of the unity of theory and practice in every party activity by consciously applying the dialectical method but also by making a number of changes in organization and in cadre policy. In our draft report to the party congress we arrived at the conclusion that this transition to the new basis of party building can be relatively completed with the 6th Party Congress. I am using the term "relative completion" because the process of self-transformation of the party and of each individual member must go on, of course. This transformation of self must be applied to developing the interrelation between the party and the masses to a higher level.

Red Flag: In the face of so many political events, isn't it complicated to concentrate on preparing the party congress?

Stefan Engel: That is indeed true. Since January, when we published the draft for a new party program for discussion, we had to cope with important political tasks in class struggle. First of all, the great industrial action in connection with collective bargaining in the metal industry meant a first confrontation between the workers and the wage directive of the Federal Government. The workers didn't follow the guidelines of the Schroeder/Fischer government and fought through a genuine increase in wages. It was the first time after the change of government that the government was challenged by a mass movement and that the core of the industrial proletariat opposed an anti-worker imposition of the government.
This shook up the government for the first time. The elections to the legislature in the federal state of Hesse, which took place at the same time, expressed a growing dissatisfaction with the policy of the Schroeder/Fischer government. With Mr. Lafontaine's resignation from office, an open government crisis set in, making obvious that the use of the petty-bourgeois mode of thinking as the characteristic method of governance had failed. The government first had to find a new main method and reorganize its mass base.
With the commencement of the NATO war against Yugoslavia at the end of March, the open political crisis of the government intensified at first, and the Federal Government faced the real threat of collapsing over this issue. However, with the support of a grand coalition between the Social Democratic Party, the Alliance/Green Party, the Christian Democratic Party/Christian Social Union and the Liberal Democratic Party, the government was able to enforce German armed forces in the NATO war against Yugoslavia. This enabled the Social Democratic Party and the Alliance/Green Party to give leeway to pacifist opponents of war within their parties in order to tone down the contradictions and to undermine the development of active resistance by orienting towards imperialist peace plans. The absence of a broad active mass resistance against the NATO war in Yugoslavia, despite the great desire for peace in the population, enabled the government to relatively stabilize since May and to overcome their open political crisis. But since then the political crisis has continued to smolder latently.
The success of the 9th International Whitsun Youth Meeting with a total of 27,000 participants was an important signal for the successful building up of a militant opposition against the anti-people Schroeder/Fischer government.
The new crisis program, drafted by (the minister of finance) Mr. Eichel, has deep repercussions for the lives of the masses. By adopting this program, the Schroeder/Fischer government definitively expressed their determination to manage the business of the monopolies without any ifs and buts. But the masses first had to come to term with this. The dissatisfaction with government policy and the disappointment about the new government, in particular among their own voters, are very great.
All this made great demands upon the party within the last months. We were able to cope with this challenge only by consistently completing the process of self-transformation of the MLPD and of raising the party's system of work at the grass roots level to a higher level. It all depended particularly on understanding these tasks as a training ground for the preparation of the party congress.
Of course, we had important discussions and debates within the party about the implementation of this fundamental understanding of the preparation of the party congress. Some party groups let themselves be carried away by actionism, especially in the struggle against the NATO war, and they temporarily neglected the preparation of the party congress. In some party groups, these errors resulted in a hectic rush and in distraction, which diminished the efficiency of our party activities, especially their depth and the development of the comrades concerned.
As far as our groups succeeded in correctly linking up these political tasks with the discussion of the drafts of the party program and the report, they were able to develop a high-quality systematic work at the grass roots level as well as to enhance their awareness and understanding of the problems involved in the preparation of the 6th Party Congress. Bringing about the dialectical unity of theory and practice in the practical and systematical work at grass roots level was possible only if the ideological-political preparation of the 6th Party Congress maintained the leading role.

Red Flag: Since the elections to the European Parliament, we have witnessed a detachment of certain parts of the electorate, sympathizers and members from the governing parties, the SPD and the Alliance/Green Party. How is this trend in the consciousness of the masses to be evaluated?

Stefan Engel: It is a new development in the history after World War II that a government coalition has lost so much of its electorate's approval within such a short period of time. Many voters had hoped that now that Kohl is gone, their living conditions would get better. The desire to have a secured income and some peace, at least as a pensioner, is being destroyed. In contrast to the bold promises, nothing has changed in mass unemployment. Those who are dependent on social welfare are being plunged into deeper and deeper misery. People have reason to be worried about getting poorer medical care and having to pay tremendous amounts themselves. The pompous announcement of a dual citizenship, too, turned out to bring forth nothing but an intensified political discrimination of immigrants in Germany.
In the elections to the state assemblies in the federal states of Brandenburg and Saarland last weekend, the Social Democratic Party and the Greens have both suffered bitter electoral defeats. This marks the continuation and consolidation of a trend that began early this year with the elections in Hesse. In Brandenburg, Minister-President Stolpe even lost 15 percent as compared to the last elections to the state assembly. In the Saarland, Mr. Klimmt lost 5 percent. In both states, the Green Party failed to take the 5 percent hurdle, just like the Liberal Democratic Party.

Red Flag: Isn't it the CDU that is profiting from this development?

Stefan Engel: Superficially seen, it was the CDU and to some extent the PDS that won the elections. But if you take a closer look, you will see that it was not mainly a matter of the SPD voters now voting for the CDU. In the federal state of Saarland voter turnout fell from 83.5% in 1994 to 68.7%. In Brandenburg it was just about 54%. CDU got a 6.9% increase in Saarland, but lost an absolute number of 12,000 votes since 1994. Similar to the European elections, masses of workers simply did not go to the polls. In Saarland it was 8% of the workers and 13% of voters under the age of 30 who formerly voted for SPD and now did not vote at all. This shows that basically all parties are the object of people's dissatisfaction.
The detachment of masses of voters of the SPD and the Greens from their own parties is also a phenomenon that must be analyzed very carefully. Some comrades jumped to the conclusion that this would lead to an upswing in the struggles and independently organized activities. But that is only partially the case. Abstention in elections is more a tendency towards resignation and passivity rather than an expression of conscious political protest. It does not change anything at all and it is accompanied by a deep skepticism in one's own strength. Many people are merely disappointed that SPD and Alliance-Greens did not keep their election promises. But this standpoint also involves that the program of the SPD and of Alliance-Greens is in principle suited to change social conditions to the better. These people still evaluate the SPD from a petty-bourgeois-reformist mode of thinking. Some of them are even prepared to vote for CDU/CSU now in order to settle a score with the SPD.
However, there is also a growing majority who are drawing more far-reaching conclusions from the fact that the SPD exposed itself as manager of the monopolies. They question the entire parliamentary system, are receptive to our Marxist-Leninist persuasion work and are looking for a fundamental alternative. They are open to a militant opposition against the government and are increasingly participating in such activities.
Basically, the main problem is that today the socialist perspective remains obscured for the broad masses. It is a result of modern anti-communism that dissatisfaction with the SPD and Greens has a demoralizing effect upon many people. Not until we are able to convey a social alternative in theory and practice to these disappointed people, one which they can realistically picture, can we stand up to these widespread feelings and really include masses of new people in political activities, in the common struggle against the anti-people Schroeder/Fischer government.

Red Flag: At the beginning of the year, it seemed that the FRG was heading for a overproduction crisis. Now there's a lot of talk about a ”coming upswing”. How do you evaluate this?

Stefan Engel: Bourgeois economics is a pseudo-science which serves to confuse people regarding the real background of the economic and political development. Depending on whether wage negotiations or elections are just taking place, economic statistics are interpreted differently in the official propaganda. As a rule, in times of wage negotiations the economy is in, or at least on the brink of ”a deep crisis”. This aims at keeping the workers from putting up and struggling for their wage demands. In times of elections, on the other hand, there is usually an ”economic upswing” in order to underscore the ability of the respective governing parties to rule.
The slight decrease in industrial production at the beginning of the year was over-exaggerated by the bourgeois press for propaganda reasons in order to influence the on-going wage negotiations and to put pressure on the reformist trade unions. Following the new crisis program drafted by Eichel, the most important monopoly organization BDI (Bundesverband der Deutschen Industrie) expressed its support for the federal government. Promptly, the public media and reporting on government policy changed their tune. That is why they are now talking about an ”impending economic upswing”. The slight decrease in production within several months of the first half of the year was a feature of wavering stagnation.
An overproduction crisis would have brought about a fall in production to the level of some years ago, but this did not occur. In the meantime, production is rising again slightly, accompanied by fluctuations of the dollar and the Euro, of prices for natural resources, etc.
But wavering stagnation in the economy does not mean the lessening of contradictions. On the contrary, the fluctuations are a reflection of the gigantic competition between the international monopolies on the world market, that is, of their attempt to shift the burden of the crisis onto the backs of the non-monopolized bourgeoisie. This has led to the monopolies recovering at the expense of the non-monopolized bourgeoisie. For example, from 1997 to 1998, the 100 biggest German monopolies could even increase their portion of turnover by 10.8% while that of the other capitalists sank from 600 billion to 513 billion German marks.
On an international level, the balance of power, especially among the USA, the European and the Japanese imperialists, has shifted in favor of the European Union and the USA and to the detriment of Japan. The number of Japanese monopolies among the 500 biggest international monopolies decreased within two years from 126 to 100, while at the same time the European and US-American monopolies could increase their numbers respectively to about 180. At the same time there are absolutely no signs for a de-escalation of the economic and political development. The international working class movement must continue to prepare itself for a new and devastating world economic crisis. That will depend upon the development of the US-economy which dominates the world economy today more than ever before.
The criticism of bourgeois economics must expose the laws of capitalist society and help the masses to understand that this social order is doomed to failure.

Red Flag: What effects would the transition to a new world economic crisis have on the development of the class struggle?

Stefan Engel: The economic development of the international structural crisis today already leads to an intensified struggle among the masses between the proletarian and the petty-bourgeois mode of thinking. The petty-bourgeois mode of thinking tries to persuade the masses to pursue an individual way out of the present conditions or to place their faith in bourgeois parties. The proletarian mode of thinking must strengthen the self-confidence of the working class and win it over to form a front together with the other strata of the working masses against the anti-people government policy.
However, there is much less tactical scope for such activities, especially because the reformist trade union leadership regards itself, for the most part, as partner of the Schroeder/Fischer government and increasingly suppresses all real militant efforts out of loyalty to the government.
All of this means: a higher level of class consciousness is necessary to begin and to lead struggles successfully today. This applies to union struggles and even more in a situation where the trade union framework must consciously be broken through.
The most important thing in the struggle over the mode of thinking among the masses is therefore to strengthen the process of their detachment from the SPD and the Greens, and to help them to achieve a deeper understanding that goes to the very essence of the world outlook. This will enable the masses to also understand the reformism and petty-bourgeois environmentalism behind the policy of the SPD and Alliance/Greens. This is the only way to succeed in including more and more masses of people in the social opposition to the anti-people government policy.
But we must be patient in this process and not demand too much of people. In this transition to participating in the militant opposition, they must overcome old and very deep-seated illusions, habits and traditions. That is often painful and a number of people are afraid of such a self-transformation. There is no such thing as a spontaneous transition from the dissatisfaction with Social Democracy and the Greens to revolutionary class consciousness. Such a transition is only possible, if the MLPD, by means of a correct strategy and tactics in the struggle over the mode of thinking of the masses, succeeds in coping with the demoralizing effects of the petty-bourgeois mode of thinking in the working class movement and the broad masses of the population. This is also the great significance of our preparations for the party congress, namely, that it prepares the party for education work and a rank and file work among the masses and helps them to understand the present economic and political development and to develop the necessary self-confidence and self-assurance.

Red Flag: In the federal state North Rhine-Westphalia municipal elections are presently taking place. For the first time in 15 years the MLPD is not running with its own list.

Stefan Engel: Because of our concentration on the preparation of the party congress we are presently not able to participate comprehensively in these municipal elections. We decided to participate actively only in the municipal elections in Gelsenkirchen. We thereby gave priority to the participation in a militant electoral alliance with individual personalities as candidates and refrained from running independently as a party.
The active participation in the electoral alliance AUF Gelsenkirchen is a new experience for us, because we are just one part of various opinions, groups and persons and therefore first have to struggle carefully for consensus before any practical step can be taken. The alliance has undergone an excellent development until now. It succeeded in putting up candidates in all 33 electoral districts and for three municipal bodies. The alliance has about 320 members up to now and is mainly supported by people who are not organized in any party at all and by members or former members of six parties at present. These are particularly former Social Democrats or disappointed Greens, as well as members of the MLPD, and a small number of members of CDU, DKP and PDS.
The discussion within the electoral alliance reflects the entire process of the building of the militant opposition in Gelsenkirchen. AUF is not only concerned with the election campaign, but also intends to become a voice of the various militant activities in Gelsenkirchen. In that sense, AUF is a form of the militant opposition against the anti-people government policy on the federal, as well as on the municipal level. In the meantime, a broad discussion about supporting AUF Gelsenkirchen has been successfully developed, especially among the dissatisfied voters, the foreign voters and the youth. The main debate is focussed on the question of whether people go to the polls or not. Therefore AUF Gelsenkirchen mainly fulfills the function of being a militant alternative to resignation and passivity. The big meeting in Hans-Sachs-House attended by more than 800 people already demonstrated the great attraction of this electoral alliance.
For the MLPD the main problem of its participation in this alliance is how to develop the correct interrelation between independent party work and participation in the alliance. That is why we decided from the very beginning to continue with our regular MLPD information stands during the election campaign, too, and to issue our newspapers in order to retain our independent identity. We are presently experiencing an openness to the MLPD which can be seen in a rise in sales of the "Red Flag” as well as in a number of applications for membership in the MLPD. However, we must understand that the organizational form of an electoral alliance includes a great variety of world outlooks and political influences which demand patient persuasion work and also, by all necessary discussion, honest respect for people having different points of view as well as our own readiness to learn. That only works if the principles accepted by all participants for our common work are observed. For us, the electoral alliance is thus a real school for us of the preparations for the party congress. It is a school of how a broad unity of action can be built up without neglecting the identity of the MLPD and its party building.

Red Flag: What is your personal opinion? What results will the electoral alliance have?

Stefan Engel: We have no real comparison for the outcome of such an electoral alliance under similar conditions. I assume that AUF Gelsenkirchen has good chances of getting into the city council. Following factors are favorable: First of all, only about 1.7% of the votes are necessary to get into the city council since the 5% clause was abolished. That is not only an advantage in terms of quantity but also has the effect of people saying they have a real chance of getting seats, and a vote for AUF Gelsenkirchen is not wasted. A second point is: due to the extension of voter participation to young people and people with other nationalities from the European Union, the number of eligible voters has increased considerably, especially among those groups of the population where the alliance has its biggest influence and support. Thirdly, and this is decisive, the ties have loosened between various voters and their respective parties and the readiness to vote for a militant alternative which takes a critical position on the entire issue of party corruption has increased considerably. Our experience is that the idea of AUF Gelsenkirchen is being taken up very well. On the other hand, we observe the effects of a general skepticism towards all parties, including AUF Gelsenkirchen, when people ask whether this alliance will not end up like all the others, etc. In addition, not all possible maneuvers of bourgeois defamation in the election struggle are foreseeable. The mass media do everything in their power to present the electoral alliance as a meaningless peripheral phenomenon or an ”MLPD cover-up” and they report relatively little about the very extensive activities of AUF in Gelsenkirchen. In the meantime, AUF is conducting 14 to 18 information stands per week, is going from door to door and to factory gates in Gelsenkirchen, is taking part in neighborhood street festivals and in other activities and has already issued a total of 160,000 to 170,000 copies of the election newspaper. This was all self-financed and that means not with tax money.
After election day the alliance will surely be faced with new demands. In case it succeeds in the elections the alliance will have to develop, step by step, a comprehensive municipal political platform, clarify its positions and consolidate its structures. That will also attract new forces and encourage people to participate in this militant alliance. Experience shows that this will also mobilize petty-bourgeois forces who crave for recognition and try to join this up-and-coming force or even join the alliance for career purposes. That means that the struggle between the proletarian and the petty-bourgeois mode of thinking will intensify within the alliance.
In case of a defeat in the elections, we will have to see if the alliance is capable of coping with defeats, of consolidating in a long-range perspective and of adhering actively to its goals. That would also intensify the struggle over the mode of thinking and certainly change the composition of the alliance. In either case, the idea that the work within the alliance might be easier or less encompassing after the municipal elections is definitely naive.

Red Flag: That the PDS is running for elections in Gelsenkirchen has made the situation for AUF more complicated. Which conclusions have to be drawn from this?

Stefan Engel: The municipal election alliance AUF was always open for the active participation of the PDS. A small number of members even actively participated in the past or are still active. The PDS Gelsenkirchen repeatedly declared to the alliance that it was not capable of participating in the alliance. So much more surprising was the fact that after the 5% clause was abolished and apparently at the instigation of its party leadership, the PDS organized its election participation in all electoral districts of Gelsenkirchen within three weeks. This is in open opposition to AUF Gelsenkirchen and is especially directed against the participation of the MLPD. This, of course, outraged a lot of people in AUF Gelsenkirchen. Members and supporters of PDS and DKP were also placed in a dilemma, because some of them were even running against candidates from their own parties in their electoral districts.
The MLPD criticized the harmful PDS candidature and called upon the PDS to support the promising beginnings of a broad alliance in AUF Gelsenkirchen instead. The PDS declined this proposal and must therefore expect to become isolated, especially among politically active people in Gelsenkirchen. This, however, is their own problem.
The MLPD must not let itself be provoked by things like that. It pursues a policy of united action with all people who are prepared to join in on the basis of the struggle against the federal government and on the basis of mutual respect, of equal rights and democratic discussion among all participants. If PDS and DKP are prepared to do this they are welcome in such a united action. However, both of these parties must stop arrogantly stipulating unacceptable conditions for such common work as they did, for example, in Gelsenkirchen on Anti-War Day. There they demanded that the MLPD not appear as a party, neither with a speech of its own nor with a banner, not even with its own flyers. It was only ”allowed” to mobilize the majority of participants. This is in contradiction to any real united action in which it is a matter of course that the identity of each and every participant be maintained. When the MLPD rejected this type of united action, PDS and DKP terminated its participation in Anti-War Day in a most hysterical fashion. MLPD has never let itself been silenced by anyone and will not accept this within the framework of a united action either.
PDS and DKP will have to explain to their members and supporters why tactical party bickering is more important to them than the participation in the united action on Anti-War Day. This debate evidently shows the effects of modern anti-communism. PDS and DKP are afraid that if they appear too openly in the presence of the MLPD, they could get into trouble with certain officials and connections within the trade unions and the Social Democratic Party and could become subject to anticommunist exclusion. In the end, it is a political decision whether you join in the militant opposition against the government or whether you prefer to use tactics in order not to spoil your chances with the governing parties SPD and Greens. The position taken by a united action on the MLPD thus becomes a touchstone for the readiness to actively participate in a militant opposition without any reservations.
When we strive for a policy of united action with left forces this includes a free and critical discussion on an objective basis. The PDS clearly stands for a different social goal than the MLPD. The PDS' idea of ”socialism” is one within the framework of the bourgeois constitution which is brought about through elections and which is related to the bureaucratic-capitalist conditions in the GDR. Contrary to this, the MLPD struggles for genuine socialism which will be the result of a proletarian international revolution. Not until the working class has taken power and the capitalist mode of production is overcome will crises, wars, environmental destruction, poverty and misery belong to the past. We stand up for this conviction and will criticize all illusions in the present social conditions.

Red Flag: The MLPD always says that fighting the tendency of neglecting the ideological-political aspect in party work constitutes the essence of the preparation of the party congress. What does this mean ?

Stefan Engel: Our society contends that a tremendous lack of principles and programs as well as pragmatism is the motive force behind all political activity. This is even supposed to be the distinguishing feature of "modern policy”, whereas loyalty to principles is regarded as being hopelessly "obsolete”. Pragmatism is an adequate method for the SPD and Alliance/Green party to be flexible in meeting the respective needs of the monopolies, but it is unsuitable for the working-class movement which is fighting for the goal of a socialist society. That is why it is so important that the party works on the basis of a clear political program and on the foundation of the proletarian world-view. In every thing we undertake we have to take this foundation in the world-view and in the political program as our starting point, otherwise we will get lost in the flood of petty-bourgeois and bourgeois ideas and practices and will lose our bearings. Many mistakes in the past have to be attributed to the fact that the fundamental aspect of party work was neglected due to all the practical activities or the subordination to seemingly necessary factual constraints. For this reason, the main method of the preparation of the party congress is to overcome the neglect of the ideological-political aspect in the party work.
This mainly requires the conscious application of the dialectical method. The point here is to deeply penetrate the struggle between the proletarian and petty-bourgeois mode of thinking among the masses in order to grasp the entire dialectical process on which we want to exert systematic influence. The strategy and tactics of the struggle over the mode of thinking of the masses are nothing less than the conscious application of the dialectical method for awakening and developing the proletarian class consciousness in interrelation with the economic and political development.
It is an important further development of our line for winning the decisive majority of the working class for socialism. The struggle over the mode of thinking of the masses is not possible without consistently starting out from the ideological-political aspect.

Red Flag: The REVOLUTIONARY WAY "The class struggle and the struggle for the liberation of women”, Part I, met with great interest. When can we expect the publication of Part II and what will it deal with?

Stefan Engel: We had to interrupt the work on this REVOLUTIONARY WAY in order to draft the documents for the party congress. Meanwhile, we are analyzing the history and the present development of the bourgeois and proletarian women's movement in Germany and internationally as well as the conclusions which we must draw for our work. In this work - as in the work on the first part of this book - we are encountering a number of theoretical errors and practical shortcomings of the old communist and working class movement. We must deal with them very thoroughly in order to be able to draw the correct conclusions. At the same time, many books about the history of the working-class movement with a reformist or revisionist point of view have been published and it is necessary to first deal with these books in principle. All this takes time and must mature. However, we hope that we will be able to publish the second part of the book at the beginning of next year. It is also a concrete application of our strategy and tactics of the struggle over the mode of thinking of the masses.

Red Flag: What is the emphasis of party work in the near future?

Stefan Engel: During the next weeks we must strictly focus on the immediate preparation of the party congress. Now, we are reaching a situation in which motions for the party program and the report for the party congress have to be written, and also the right candidates have to be put up for the central bodies. For this purpose the corresponding meetings of members and county delegates' meetings have to be prepared and conducted. All this requires a quiet working atmosphere as well as thorough consideration.
At the same time we already have to deal with the question of what will happen after the party congress. We have planned an offensive of party work in which we want to concentrate on advancing party building especially in the new federal states, in automobile production sites, among women and young people. The aims of the self-transformation of our party work, which every group sets itself, are related to this task.
This offensive shall start with the participation of the MLPD in the central Lenin-Liebknecht-Luxemburg demonstration for genuine socialism at the beginning of January. We will sell our new party program broadly and focus on winning new members as well as on building new groups.
This makes it necessary to begin with preparations, like the production of necessary tools for agitation and propaganda etc. But we must make a lot of changes in the way we address the masses as well. This must be reflected e.g. in the "Red Flag” which in future must address a broad mass of people in content and form. The local groups must already direct their attention to the New Year's Eve celebration this year, which not only marks the transition to the new millenium, but also the beginning of the offensive of the party work of the MLPD for the preparation of an upsurge in the struggle for genuine socialism. Great and marvelous tasks in the struggle for a socialist future are lying ahead and these are worth fight for.

Red Flag: Thank you very much for this talk!


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